Go too far, and you lose the moderates. Though the rhetorical question “when does it stop?” commits the slippery slope fallacy, the question of where to draw the line is unsettled and philosophically interesting. Police stopped these protesters, but statues are coming down around the U.S., yanked down or removed by local governments. We haven’t forgotten the Holocaust or World War II, even though there aren’t statues of Hitler and Rommel everywhere. Lee, therefore, saw himself as defending his state of Virginia. So what should be the standard for taking down a statue? Take a look. Though they argue in good faith, both rely on some flawed arguments common among people who think the statues should remain. Not every statue or piece of public art has to comfort and console us. They were all in evidence in Charlottesville, Va., on Aug. 12, when a protest over the planned removal from a city park of a statue of the Southern Civil War general Robert E. … Why should we always put forward the oppressor and never put our heroes in statues?". As this chart shows, most Confederate monuments went up decades after the Civil War. GREENE: Oh, so actually edit the arrangement of the statues. The majority (62 percent) of America’s reader sample told us that Confederate statues should be removed from public spaces and moved to new locations, like museums or cemeteries. Should bikinis be outlawed if Muslims are offended? A STATUE of the controversial 19th-century figure Cecil Rhodes at Oxford University should not be removed, according to a poll of Express.co.uk readers. GREENE: Has your view on all of this changed since George Floyd was killed and we've seen such anger on the streets and such a growing movement at this moment? “Where do we draw the line?,” they asked. If you don’t want to ban bikinis, yarmulkes, or Christmas decorations — and I don’t — then, according to Hays, you have to support Confederate statues. The momentum to remove … MANISHA SINHA: It always astonished me as a Civil War historian to see statues commemorating Confederate generals and politicians who had literally committed treason against this country in order to uphold human bondage. Since the statues and properties are not intrinsically bad, we do not remove and destroy them. Perhaps. My family also descends from George Washington and John Marshall, the fourth chief justice of the Supreme Court. With most American figures, certainly most presidents, you will find many reasons to actually criticize them and criticize their record, even our heroes. All wars feature soldiers who don’t really know why they’re fighting. SINHA: I think then it becomes a purely destructive exercise, a way you are simply destroying all monuments and all statues. Civilization remains intact. They must be removed,” according to Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi (D-CA). But on most things they’re evenly matched. SINHA: I've been against it all along. Opposing view: Should statues of Sir John A. Macdonald be removed? The Confederate statues were put up when they were put up [not just after the war but largely during periods of Civil Rights tension in the 20th century], to send a message about white supremacy, and to sentimentalize people who had actively fought to preserve the system of slavery. A campaign began under the hashtag #RhodesMustFall during which students demanded the statue be removed. UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTER: When do we want it? The president weighed in, opposing removal. This is why communities across the region have a moral obligation to take up the cause of removing them. No. GREENE: Historian Manisha Sinha is the author of "The Slave's Cause: A History Of Abolition.". They accuse him in particular of having compensated the settlers after the postage, and demand that statues … NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by Verb8tm, Inc., an NPR contractor, and produced using a proprietary transcription process developed with NPR. Like, what do you see is at stake here if the number of statues being removed really broadens? Some people oppose the removal of any statue because it is like erasing history and argue that people in the past can't be judged by attitudes today - statues should be … Further, Americans pay to have Confederate statues and the associated values on display. GREENE: But is there an argument that removing these statues could help further the fight for racial equality in our country? From the Editorial Board:Remove Confederate monuments to America's original sin of slavery Tear down systemic racism brick by brick. (Barely any have positive impressions of the Nazis). A website has now emerged, toppletheracists.org, identifying the statues that, it says, must be removed. Nevertheless, the claim that there’s no way to create a consistent standard is inaccurate. What is that extreme? The statue had its head removed in 1992 and it was splashed with red paint multiple times recently. Proponents of legalizing same sex marriage sold moderates on that idea, and that idea alone. Everybody knows who won the war. Slaves were the basis of the Southern economy at that time. Questioning where we should draw the line is reasonable, but assuming there’s no answer commits the slippery slope fallacy. Unfortunately, his claim is true, but not with regard to this issue. The article says you will likely need 70 people pulling on very strong ropes or straps to bring down a statue. Removing a few of the most egregious statues will not, as some people fear, erase the histories of these places, nor diminish the cultural heritage their residents are, for … The calls to deface and ultimately remove such statues is not only understandable, but commendable. Others argue removing the statues would hardly atone for the atrocities committed and is tantamount to erasing history. ... Cardiff Lord Mayor Dan De'Ath says the memorial should be removed … For many people, especially minorities, these statues are a reminder of a very painful past, and glorify the … Their statues pay homage to hate, not heritage. Every single one. With Confederates I’d say no. Simply removing monuments and moving them so they are out of sight is likewise not new, either. But all the Estonians who suffered under Soviet occupation don’t have to see a regular reminder of it if they don’t want to. Removal of Confederate monuments and memorials is an ongoing process in the United States since the 1960s. Removing Confederate monuments is not “removing history.” It is removing a dishonorable cause from a place of honor. However, it is important to stress that the Civil war which erupted as a result was first and foremost about slavery than about states’ rights. But I think a better idea there would have been to actually remove the statues of the African American man and the Native American man and maybe let Teddy Roosevelt be there to commend him for his support of conservation and his support for the Natural History Museum. He argues that all have complicated histories, all did bad as well as good, and therefore there is no logical reason to remove statues of some but not others. Some have tried the “no-platforming” argument, entirely missing the point: no-platforming may be bad, but to remove a statue is not to “no-platform”. In 2015, Rhodes’ statue was removed from the University of Cape Town’s campus. When asked on BBC’s Today programme why the statue had not been removed since he became mayor in 2016, he said it was something he would have liked to have seen, but was not … Because they honor individuals — and because many observers just see a statue of some guy without knowing the details — the monuments are not as clearly inappropriate as, say, statehouses flying a traitorous, pro-slavery flag. I think the difference that Floyd's murder has made is that most American citizens are finally realizing what they represent. We drew the line at two consenting adults. The Royal Historical Society says that statues do not stand outside history and their removal does not erase it. That sentiment is unfortunately common in today’s politics. The death of George Floyd is leading to the removal -- by protesters in some cases and city leaders in others -- of contentious statues that have riled some residents for decades, if not … The UK government on Monday unveiled new laws to protect England's cultural and historic heritage in the form of statues and monuments to ensure they are not removed … The … I don’t fear 150-year-old statues of old dead white men. Statues have frequently been the focus of struggle in defining the past. These generals may be dead and gone, but people who share their hateful worldview are still with us. This is why the city council of Charlottesville voted, a century after it was commissioned, to remove the statue of Robert Edward Lee. I think Berny Belvedere’s on the right track when he asks if we can extricate the complicated historical figure from an uncomplicatedly immoral cause. Opponents said, well, if you're going to take down Jefferson Davis, the next day you're going to take down George Washington. “Could someone marry an 8-year-old? If a private homeowner has a crèche on his front yard during the Christmas season, should that be removed because some atheists are offended? Students covered the Rhodes statue with graffiti and plastic bags, and promised to demonstrate until it was removed. I think the difference that George Floyd's murder has made and that's been a bit heartening for me is that ordinary American citizens have finally realized what these statues symbolize and how they have been a standing affront for African Americans and their quest for equal citizenship in this country because Black Americans have always been against it. Having these statues in a museum instead of as a centrepiece of a city means the statues may be viewed less as a symbol of white supremacy and more as a piece of history . And I think most Civil War historians have been against Confederate statues - if not removal, at least with contextualization. Peter Berns column: Why people with intellectual disability, like Cory Johnson, should not be executed Jan 11, 2021 It has been nearly 20 years since the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Atkins v. David Greene talks to Manisha Sinha, professor of American history at the University of Connecticut, about the recent toppling of non-Confederate statues like those of George Washington. That’s the real history, and it doesn’t match the narrative that advocates of removing the monuments are trying to erase the Civil War from memory. Lee, Jackson, and the other Confederates fought for one of them. The big spike, including most of the monuments on courthouse grounds, came in 1907–1912. Not because there aren’t people who want to go much further than removing Confederate statues and would use success as a jumping off point to their next cause, but because many Americans aren’t ideologues. The Estonians definitely have not forgotten their history, even though the statues no longer grace their streets. Monuments to men who advocated cruelty and barbarism to achieve such a plainly racist end are a grotesque affront to these ideals. As anti-racist protests spread around the world, more and more statues of controversial historical figures are being removed from the United States and the United Kingdom. But I see little value in a moral debate between genocide and chattel slavery. And all feature commanders who fight for their side because it’s their side. SINHA: Exactly. This statement is one made by Harry Sanders above with regard to why we should leave Confederate statues up. If some people find churches and synagogues offensive, should they be torn down? Jackson was a slave owner. Though many of the arguments defending Confederate monuments are weak, I’ll admit I don’t feel strongly about removing them. I would like it removed. How does removing or vandalising such landmarks help with the anti-racism movement? So now we've moved into a different phase. That argument is nonsense. Defending them was among the official reasons for the white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia. Do not settle for the symbolic act of taking down statues. Copyright © 2020 NPR. (So do not find 70 of your closest friends and have a “topple the racist … In Birmingham, protesters began attempting to topple the statues … Does the removal of such statues alter our history? It’s also wrong. In Arc, C’Zar Bernstein and Steve Hays present cases against removing Confederate monuments. That’s why taking down Confederate statues does not guarantee we will take down monuments to slave-owning Founding Fathers. Here in Washington, D.C., last night, protesters in Lafayette Square right by the White House tried to take down a statue of President Andrew Jackson. One fought for America, the other against it. It would seem logical that if statues of soldiers offend, then the statues of political leaders should offend more. Those villains want to do all sorts of terrible things, and giving in on Confederate statues will only encourage them to push for more. This was before he became president or even commanded the Union Army. Or a snake?”. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record. Ultimately, I land near Hays (it’s best decided locally) and Belvedere (put the statues in a museum). They remember the era of occupations without honoring them, even though some Estonians still think highly of the Russians. Quoting Donald Trump, Bernstein asks: “Where does it stop?,” a question Hays echoes. Take away these men who seem to be inferior to Roosevelt, but leave him. And they were. 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