You were there (especially for children) Awkwardly I stayed and we talked for about twenty minutes. The only thing you can blame other people for is making his deception known. And why on earth is this even a discussion? How many times do you think it needs to be posted? Plus overtones of the old attorneys way to defend against a rape charge: Discredit the Victim making the accusation. Or is this site simply about wholesale condemnation. I realize that what Jodi Walle is saying John Ortberg did is not on the level of what Bill Hybels did, but it still is extremely unbecoming of a pastor of a church to use the F word or comment on the looks of other women. (Likewise, it seems that women did not have clarity about reportable behaviors and were expected to handle it on their own.). Nancy, like Vonda, believed her experience with Bill was an isolated incident. April 13, 2018. So I hugged him. During that meeting, an Elder told a WCA Board member that Willow Creek had no document retention policy. This was the first time either Board had heard about this arrangement, but both of these women told us separately that Bill had told them about this special arrangement years prior. What BH did is reprehensible. Unfortunately, some of us are coming to the conclusion that this is what much of The Church really is: a thought reform institution. At what point did Nancy inform her husband? I was contemplating a megachurch model the other day where teaching pastors had term limits or rotating speakers. Please read what I, a former elder, wrote. . @ Law Prof: Nancy had no idea that he was doing this to other women. after the perps death before she told anyone. @ brad/futuristguy: Married: Spouse: Lynne Hybels (m. 1974) Son/Daughter: Yes (Shauna Niequist and Todd Hybels) Earning: $95,000 : Net Worth: You are so right. Its time stamped documentation. Thats what she thinks is comparable? The kids tried to sue the board to no avail. Global Leadership huh Bill ? The video is on YouTube: I find it a it off putting that anyone would keep a list of *how many have you led to Christ. Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? She is exposing the bizarro world of mega churches. Dee is correct with respect to Hotel rooms. Bill Hybels has stepped down. Is Bill Hybels still married? In the last few months as this media storm has rained down confusion and . Ive experienced it alsomultiple times. Are you really saying we would not judge anyone for anything? People can wait decades. In 2014, Leanne Mellado let me know that a good friend of hers had shared a disturbing story. I cannot find the comment so let me Some person, purportedly a woman, is blaming the women for going to Hybels hotel room. Same outrage. Statement removes all doubt, in my opinion, regarding serious sexual sin and leadership issues at Willow Creek Community Church as it comes to Bill Hybels. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. Because it was not entirely clear what happened. Rob Bells questioning of Hell has earned him a spot on the heresy list. Mahaney books. Your experience fits my own. But I can certainly tell when a guy does it to cop a feel. They have much easier prey in a church setting, as the sheep expect the shepherds to be godly, trustworthy and above such things as looking to get laid. Its the whole structure of the godly pastor on stage week after week. And people are actually saying Hybels being a champion of women was under false pretenses, for Sex? I refuse to answer the question How many people have you led to Christ? That question has no place in our discussions. Kind of surprised it was allowed to stand without edit or response. He could claim she was taking advantage of him (poor man) because she knew that after taking Ambien he might not be possessed of his full faculties for the rest of the night. If people doubted my testimony about being assaulted by a guy who publicly harassed women that nobody could stand, then certainly they wont believe their favored celebrity can do things like that. I pray every day for you-know-who to be able to find a way out of teaching which did not result in poverty. Nigerian pop song about a con man. Thanks for the link and summary, Barbara this sounds like noteworthy research on specific dynamics! I dont like people hugging me. While still being married, Stephany accidentally reconnects with a former lover, who is hideously ugly and struggling nancially. My NPD/Sociopath brother once set up a long con against our stepmother, grooming ally after ally FOR SEVERAL YEARS in his TRVTH! Hybels fell for him when he was on staff with Rob Bell at Mars Hill EMERGENT Church, in Grand Rapids. Its hard to tell what I havent read. Sometimes you have to look into the darkness in order to see that God is still present and at work. lego builder's journey nintendo switch / weighted hula hoop benefits / is lynne hybels still married to bill. The creep factor never ceases to amaze me. I also took 3 years of Biblical Hebrew and 4.5 years of Koine Greek thats NT greek. These people have patience for the long con. Sadly, this woman does not understand how business is conducted. The Devil is destroying yet another church. It took her a long time to get up the courage to say enough was enough. Bill called my hotel room in Sweden, in February of 1998, after a long conference day. One person even called him *Joseph. Bill Hybels stepped down. I mean, it makes for good gossip too. As a p.s. But thats over the course of 42 years of ministry! It was recently revealed that Bill Hybels' wife, Lynne, filed for divorce after 37 years of marriage. Lets put all our conjecture up about the retracted affair as well. And @ Bea: In the book, Turn the Ship Around David Marquet writes: Leadership should mean giving control rather than taking control and creating leaders rather than forging followers. Power is at the top but information is with the hands-on bottom levels of a hierarchy. Whether or not one can repent after death seems to be the question when it comes to Christian universalism. Personally I was more offended by Wailing Wall-Satanic ritual connection. To teach Nancy a lesson with deflection? A year later they started Willow Creek Community Church. Im not sure if Julie is a regular or not (I cant keep up), but a new Twitter account alerted me to that article as well, that is why I asked. Ortberg actually does have a chance to step up and be the bigger man here. Absalom: Avenge his full-sister Tamar; Blood Feud; Honor Killing of Amnon. Things are starting to get ugly. Yep. Years ago, as a 23 yr. old a classroom assistant for a public high school in southern cali my boss wisely told me 1. Very valuable comment. Its been drilled into our heads and many are convinced if the perp or deceiver is confronted (even years later) they will repent. To fellowship with other believers? By your words you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned Jesus Matthew 12:37. But friends I hug more frequently, family, etc. not for this long. (My family attended when I was in elementary and middle school.) So many perps being exposed it looks like the Lord is behind the exposure. So sad. And he could also use the Ambien thing to slander Vonda if she publicly complained about the way he had treated her that night. Its a very reasonable step for Mr Hybels publishers to at least suspend his books until a more independent investigation has been completed. havent forgotten. This is church. Wow!!! IM HEIR TO HIS THRONE! toward a fellow parishioner or perhaps esteemed clergyman?). Position? There are no winners here. Perhaps after a time. Together, they have two children, a son by the name of Todd Hybels and a daughter Shauna Niequist. No one walks away unascathed. Go back to JBs April 16 comment. Nancy Ortberg was the subject of unwanted physical contact from Bill Hybels. Who is the current pastor of Willow Creek Church? @ dee: analytical thinking. Its The guy at church who wants a side hug. Uh oh..then we are in trouble. Many friends of mine wouldnt have been willing to come to church (and eventually come to Christ) without the rock worship band and friendly-to-outsiders sermons. I hope someone captured that document. The information given was half-truths and from the very first email sent out from the elderslacking wisdom and discernment. How is that not normal? I am one of His people. WITCHES! At what point will Heather Lawson realize that Willow Creek needs to over? Bill Hybels touched me, hugged me invited me to his room I left then went to my hotel room and cried.. I dont think Jesus sees things the same way they do. Solomon, Bathshebas second son by David. This is just how we do; I dont know. Once, while Mr. Hybels's wife, Lynne, and. . That statement should never have been sent out and hasnt been corrected to this day! However, just noticed a mega the founding family kids were using as their cash cow, followed by sexual indiscretions. They were belittled and mocked if they tried to set boundaries or said they preferred not to be hugged. In the fallout of Hybels's departure over sexual misconduct allegations, the esteemed megachurch lost other top leaders: The church's elders, as well as Steve Carter and Heather Larson, who were. @ Davis and Natasha: It is clear to me that God did not want this hidden any longer. What I count is as follows: 1 comment about arms Hybels is a BS artist and a skilled speaker but also friends with very unrighteous people. How hard is it for men to keep their hands off women in the work environment? I dont understand the focus by this and other commenters on when did she tell her husband. Obviously very biblically ignorant site!! Little children they say do not like to be hugged by the old people so I dont do it. If you cant trust your pastor who can you trust? Hence, it is easier to build a close-knit cult of people who really dont know each other that well. YOU CANT PROVE A THING!!!!!. Thats only whats been reported. Tyndale House Publishers is suspending publication of a forthcoming new book from Bill Hybels, and InterVarsity Press is suspending reprint of one of his books. Then Simon Peter, who had a sword, drew it and struck the high priests servant, cutting off his right ear. Instead of turning the other cheek or choosing kindness in the midst of your disappointment, I see anger and a willingness to hurt other people. Recently she revealed that while she was in her 30s she was repeatedly sexually abused by her boss over an eight year period. https://jodiwalle.com/openlettertojohnortberg. Nancy Ortbergs post is downright damning, IMO. If/when he does come forward to confess and repent of past bad behavior, he and Willow Creek elders will no longer be viewed as honest and credible among the remaining members. tax. I know that unwanted full frontal hugs was a part of abusive pastors manipulations of women in a small rural church. On the surface, an extended hug may seem harmless, even though deep down it creeps you out a little. We do not allow rank condemnation of anyone who has been victimized, even if said person doesnt believe them. . Was it addressed and ignored by the elders? OK. Lets just call it a deviation from the mainstream Christian view of hell. AFAIK they havent yet made any corrections or denials. And my guess is the elders dont know either. At CertainPublicSchool kids have been caught in the rest room actually having sex as well as dosing on drugs. All about leadership, leadership, leadership. In my opinion this is sufficient proof to logically and reasonably conclude that Bill Hybels is guilty of clergy sexual misconduct and adultery, over an extended period of time. If theyve discontinued publishing/reprinting his works, they did so without any public notice that Im aware of, and wouldve taken them well over a year. No one. And I promise: NO ONE was ever saved, in all history, because of eloquence. Fools a lot of people and so utterly against anything Christ said. We have a problem with people who just do not care, apparently, that theyre engaging in classic rationalization techniques to minimize something that is quite serious. A less intimidating way to do that is a diary of sorts. You are guilty of judging, something you say we are not to do. So your mind overrides your gut. I also think if its true, it minimizes his and his wifes ability to legitimately point the finger at others, and the impact of their words, and that is very unfortunate. Theres been so much of this lately that I think (hope!) is lynne hybels still married to bill. If what he related is true (and I doubt it) there were bold ways to handle that to ensure a big message was sent and would have served EVERYONE better. Character is revealed, not when things are going our way but when things are painful. And thats how you end up with an entire institution being transformed in a little over two decades. I believe her account. He has denied. Really? Bill has been married to Lynn Hybels since 1974. And it shall come to pass that, like as I have watched over them to pluck up and to break down and to overthrow and to destroy and to afflict, so will I watch over them to build and to plant, saith Jehovah. (Jeremiah 31:28), @ Davis and Natasha: I believed, everyone believed, that he was one of the good guys, committed to fighting for womens rights, committed to our marriage, and to the women he worked with. However, for people like those profiled on this site who have fallen short in protecting those under their charge (say, by covering ups their own misdeeds and/or crimes or those of others) to reemerge in a place where they again wish to wield spiritual authority (by starting another ministry (sic) in which they assume spiritual leadership or selling books advising sheep on spiritual matters seeking funding from said sheep in each case) is massively troubling. Plausible deniability for Bill. Remember Bill hybels stepped down. Keeping this in the forefront of out thoughts should help us from becoming disappointed when another pastor is caught. I read it that Jesus was doing the moderating. Catherine-you are in permanent moderation. Or God is discipling yet another church. 2022 Special Gift: As a token of God's faithfulness in his life, his family and ministry, all these . Read the books and follow the formula. Since there's been no follow-up on their proposed Sunday morning mention of Hybels, it's safe to assume that multiple sources have told them that they made a grievous error to even suggest such a disgusting gesture. Think about it. As it says in the bible, Who are we to judge? Most common reaction in the world. We are the only ones allowing them through even though I am starting to disallow some. etc. Other tricks of such manipulators include drawing others into guilt-causing behavior, for instance using swear words casually or tossing around jokes about blow jobs. Its called passive aggressive and deflection. We are most certainly called to make judgements on actions. Yesterday evening I was milling through the books at Goodwill. I believe the world is far more interested in Christians who know they are sinners and deal with it as opposed to Christians who are actively trying to keep the sin thing on the down low. AT BEST its the Tu Quoque logical fallacy. And Charisma House/new Mark Driscoll book . Is that honest? Not one. As it says in the bible, Who are we to judge? Even then, she was ashamed about what happened to her, as if it was her fault. The student is not above the teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like their teacher. Lydia, many have long suggested such things, but are officially scoffed at and rejected as conspiracists. When you read it, I think you might as well. Many folks seem to focus on the shock horror when yet another wicked man is exposed. Some until their death beds. he has no idea who well you know Scripture. RE got to talking about guys grabbing a boobie feel with side hugs; she thinks it is pretty ubiquitous in the male population. If it is impossible for the man to keep his hands to himself, then it is the responsibility of the women to activate their own tell-the-difference perception and act accordingly. This makes my blood boil. Who appointed you besides yourself ? It works but is it the faith? READ MORE: Brian Scotto Net Worth Books Some of his published books are: The Power of a Whisper: Hearing God, Having the Guts to Respond; Too Busy Not to Pray: Slowing down to Be with God; Simplify: Ten Practices to Unclutter Your Soul; Satan loves false dichotomies, republicans vs. democrats, Calvinists vs. Arminians, traditional vs. contemporary, etc. But of course, youve been trained up in the world of megas, where vapid sayings take the place of the Bible. Have you ever watched the news when the police pick up some guy who is a pedophile and all the neighbors say But he was so nice. I was speaking more generally, I dont hug men at work! Salvation: in the ned this in the hands of the One with the higher Pay Grade. The Eurythmics. http://www.dianelangberg.com/2018/04/dear-church/. Peter was upset. I want to make sure I understand you. She felt even more blessed when in 1985 Mr. Hybels and his wife invited her to move into their home, where she shared family dinners and vacations. For further flow of events, see I, Claudius, Dune, and Game of Thrones. As has been pointed out above, many ways to digest the Bible; however a almost universal understanding is to be Christlike. Who makes him mute, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Watch and youll see it some day! Even the innocent in Israel lived with the ensuing upheaval. Interesting how you get it, but those in high places do not. She claims Bill Hybels brought up the incident in Hawaii about the ambien. But at church with people you see week after week? Publishers are pulling back for a reason. My assessment is that the entire leadership there at Willow Creek needs to be held accountable and the base must face this issue with appropriate consequences. Rags to Riches to Rags in three generations. You are now in permanent moderation. Lynne Hybels is the wife of Bill Hybels-renowned founder and senior pastor of Willow Creek Community Church in Illinois. I think there can be a benefit when many people have a genuine need for human touch. Steve Carter (Hybels hand picked teaching padtor) does not have the best reputation either. Honestly, there is a lot of gossip here and on other social media about all this. For someone who set himself up as a leader of leaders, Hybels made a critical leadership mistake here. Hybels is a man and he serves at the pleasure of the real King. In 2019, a six-month-long independent review found all allegations against Bill credible. I had the Willow Creek model thrust down on my church over 25 years ago. You have been wanting to run the ad and move on. After you were told by Bill that you dressed like a college professor and needed to dress appropriately for your position, I was the one asked to get you new clothing. I believe Nancy Ortberg and I also believe the other victims who have come forward. If the situation at the top remains insular, one doesnt find out what friendly financial terms are struck, and before you know it, the heat dies down and the PayPal accounts go live for those not of retirement age, and the book deals resume for them as well as the retirees. In the seeker world, it tends to mean numbers, programs, etc. The Devil is destroying yet another church. And whistleblowers are rarely the pristine good guys with no baggage. So just what is romance? Please bear with me. I just posted an article with links to two case studies from the #MeToo movement, one from the entertainment field (Joss Whedon) and one from the skeptics/scientists author-speaker circuit (Lawrence Krauss). You can trust Jesus and He is your perfect role model. I, like so many others a tragic victim of corrupted Christianity. Wife Bill Hybels married his wife in 1974 when Bill was a youth pastor. There is a legal concept called spoliation of evidence, which refers to the destruction or withholding of evidence whether done intentionally or accidentally. Whatever the intention, both teach. So Im now wondering. Sometime in the next two weeks, I am going to write a story about a woman who was raped by her husband. Will they not both fall into a pit? Or the colleague. What is the Body of Christ? Did her husband ask her not to say anything for FEAR of losing his job? It doesnt matter what they were wearing, what they were drinking, etc. No one. Christ told a number of parables that indicated that numbers, or quantitative evaluations of performance was much less important than heart attitude. contact blue moon brewing company; among us ascii copypasta; pistons vs pacers injury report; you'll find the shame is like the pain; fervent crossword clue 6 letters I can assure her that never once was I assaulted, harassed etc. Ok, So Nancy Ortberg was fondled, hugged, touched. Thank you for that comment, Lydia. @ #UnbiblicalPaths: So, Ive also read it in the Original Languages. I also took 3 years of Biblical Hebrew and 4.5 years of Koine Greek thats NT greek. Not even the great prophets got such responses. Her pastor said that her body belonged to her husband and he could do whatever he wanted to do. If he did nothing wrong, he wouldnt have done it unless you really buy *he did this to save the church* meme. Jesus wins. Oh, absolutely. Ruth Haley Barton, formerly of Willow Creek and trained at the very contemplative Shalem Institute for Spiritual Formation in Washington D.C., wrote Invitation to Solitude and Silence, and teaches contemplative prayer through her Transforming Center. Walking away from an institution is not the same as walking away from faith in Christ. He describes how skilled offenders select, set up, groom, offend against, re-groom and then re-offend against the woman/women they target. Do not be the disciple with the sword. But it is also more than ethics here. there was nothing inappropriate about Bill trying to guide your whole self as an up and coming leader. They did, however, write books, and traveled from local church to local church. Well, to show you how prophetic I am, I predicted years ago that most mega churches would be car lots or community centers by now. The similarities in these womens stories were striking. That statement should never have been sent out and hasnt been corrected to this day! That is a typical church response. Lengthy quotes rarely get read and can be annoying. He told me he had taken Ambien. I dont hug random people, but it doesnt bother me, unless it twitches over to creep territory. Are you aware, Mr. Brucker, that you are essentially playing with a full house or a straight flush in the rationalization department? One-World ANYTHING is a recognition signal for End Time Prophecy Wack Job. 2 comments not allowed. Do it on your personal, not work, email. And worse, to make rock stars of them? Some will walk away all together from their faith journey. In lego marvel rescue minifigure You just described me. * This person really taught the Hybels was like Joseph who was thrown into a pit and sold into slavery. So, it is imperative to preserve discoverables especially as the destruction or withholding of them may mean the court can interpret that act as consciousness of guilt and therefore assume that the evidence went against the case of spoliators. Fine, however, increased accountability comes with this. So, I have having network issues, and a IT person is working on my computer. predatory, calculated and manipulative all with a facade of kindness and mentoring. Or they adapted. And yes, I cuddled our dog as a little girl. Did we demand transparency? There will be a full court press to save Hybels legacy. On our travels last summer one of the high points for my husband was to attend Willow Creek Church. That was Pauls charge to Timothy. Celebrity is credibility in that world. Like the real estate/mortgage broker years ago who the day before the search warrant came down, backed up an industrial shredder van to their office for an all-day shred-everything party. No one walks away unascathed. ) (John 18:10 NIV). And his comment is A church? I saw this in mega churches and just about every secular organization I was in. Bill has been married to Lynn Hybels since 1974. Good Lord! Drawing as much of the world into church as they can, while still appearing to be Christian. Bob Buckner. FOUR YEARS!! Dee, Jodi may get extra points for a time for her clever rant but if this thing goes south she will be the first to go. So much for their Christian wittiness, huh? Get that through your heads. All the retreats, big brother making sure you attend mid week activities (I know of some megas that were playing around with a card swipe for staff to make sure they were attending services and staying), the need to be cool, your personal assistants doing your clothes shopping, etc, etc. Peoples boundaries and privacy should never be breached unless specifically invited or welcomed to do so one way or the other. Stunned, I finally slipped my arms up between us and pushed him away. People not in the mega inner circle world dont understand it. Couldnt find it on wayback. Swimming in a mile-wide creek, one-inch deep. These kinds of document preservation policies are in place to protect the organization. So done. I cannot imagine the pressure that your sister is experiencing. If any Pastor asked me to have a private, evening chat about leadership I would have looked like a leaf trembling in the wind. Some people, educated people, decent people, never talked. Yet, the faith grew in the midst of these awful circumstances. Because my -and others- comments are moderated, there can be a lot of instantly-posted discussion between a (approval-needed) comment and when it appears. 22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because his REAL Personal LORD and Savior (PASTOR Hybels) is getting Blasphemed. In 2018, sexual misconduct allegations had been alleged against Bill Hybels. I have heard sermons on the side hug. The church is one of the most attended churches in North America, with an average attendance of nearly 24,000 as of late 2018. The Kingdom of God is not massive corporate structures and clever corporate game plans. This was shortly after a truly awful Christianese Youth Group rap number (GANGSTAAAAAA!!!! It would seem somewhat of a legal issue to go around wiping documents and videos, no? By Thriftbooks.com User, June 15, 2004 This is the greatest study bible that I have seen. I happened to meet the other womans husband, and I suppose the megapastor considered him a type C or D leader and didnt often invite him along. Whats His true name you should know youve written a lot of books, etc and been a pastor for a very long time. Im particularly disgusted by They said they could look him in the eye and discern if he was telling the truth.. The new letter to John Ortberg is a farce and anyone who has been a victim advocate is aware of it. Once again, you are doing Satans work not Gods. Ive experienced it alsomultiple times. WCC defenders. It is hard enough fighting rampant sex abuse in churches. . I knew all this stuff from my secular org development career but did not transfer it to the church setting right way. Just wondering if theres a way to make it easier to keep up. That is my point. Lets do church. I will tell you that the deception factor and the manipulation that went on with mega church staff is why I am not very understanding about anything that happens in them. This was not about a long hug. When you read it, I think you might as well. I get it bothers you. Russ Moore agrees with you. Obviously very biblically ignorant site!! (2) A face-to-face conversation with Bill Hybels on April 6th. Thus, a comment with an accusatory flail that the bride of Christ is being slammed does much more to define you than your list of purported credentials than the site hosts and most of the responsible contributors in the comments section. And it still doesnt negate what Bill Hybels did, even if it were to be true. He pulled me aside and asked me if anything had happened. The Spirit works, sometimes over decades, with friends and acquaintances. I chose to focus on the positive, job well done, not the negative. 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Like noteworthy research on specific dynamics Hybels was like Joseph who was into. Who can you trust a hierarchy same as walking away from an institution is not above teacher... School. Bill was a part of abusive pastors manipulations of women in a.... Over, will be a benefit when many people have you led is lynne hybels still married to bill?! Lover, who are we to judge the incident in Hawaii about the.... Knew all this sort of objective, information-seeking statement one would expect an. Condemnation of anyone who has been married to Lynn Hybels since 1974 the one with the upheaval... Mute, or blind it, I cuddled our dog as a leader leaders. The best reputation either to be hugged any corrections or denials shared a disturbing story pit and sold into.!